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DAVE WROTE: Hi Don Love, This is Dave P_____ from Aboyne in Scotland talking with you. I cannot get my head around your interpretation of Daniel's last week being split into two three and half-year periods, the Great Tribulation being one of these three and half year periods, with the next one at the end of the 1000 years. I believe you to be wrong! First of all I would like to point out, that your remarks are misleading in your "CASE IN POINT" It is not a good example as far as my understanding goes. From your Case in Point; "Matthew 24:3 so that some newer versions of the Bible have them asking: "When shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the age?"-Rather than, "...and of the end of the world." They disregard the older translations and the subsequent answers to the three-fold question found in the remainder of the discourse. Instead, they prefer a wording that includes a modern, incomplete understanding. Church, we need to take care!" It is certainly true that the Church must take care, but you are wasting the opportunity of doing so, with this misleading warning. I say so with much regret and hope you do not take offence. I believe your site is excellent and well put together. Hope you are not completely fixed in your interpretation views. You are giving a wrong picture by suggesting that one is better than the other is World or Age and even more so by warning people to take care! You should indeed be warning Christians to take care, but do not waste that warning on something that is merely to bring them around to your interpretation of Daniel's 70th Week which I believe to be wrong. The word World interpretation as used in the King James fits in better with your views of the last three and a half years which you place at the end of the 1000 years. However, Age is also just as valid. But neither word gives a full explanation of what is being explained in this scripture. I agree however, that the King James is the most accurate. The Word from the Greek is (aion) It means so much more than one word can portray, as follows; "Continued duration" "ever" " by qualification regularly" " by implication earnestly" "always" "an age" "perpetuity" "by implication the world" "Messianic (Jewish) Period, present or future" "course" "eternal" "for ever more" "beginning of the, while the" "world began without end" In my first communication with you, I spoke of the Matthew Gospel being to the Jews and primarily referring to them. The message is for them; it refers to the end of the Messianic Jewish period, which will be at the end of the Great Tribulation and prior to the 1000 year Millennium. It is not the end of the World at the end of the 1000-year period. Both World and Age do not give full meaning to this scripture. That is why it is very confusing to use the Matthew Gospel in the way it is used. The Rapture of the Church is no where to be found in the Gospel of Matthew, because the Jews as a Nation are not included in this event. Only the end time Tribulation period and the second coming is to be found in Matthew 24 which is at the end of the Great Tribulation which I will get into next time I write. The Lord Jesus will come in the Second Coming with his bride from Heaven, to defeat the Antichrist and Satan. The peoples who are still alive on earth will be separated one from another "Sheep and Goats" This is not a judgement, it is a separation. The ones who have taken the Mark of the Beast 666 will be the Goats and the sheep will go into the Millennium Kingdom. Matthew 24: 34. These are flesh and blood people who will repopulate the earth during the thousand years. We the Bride will rule with Christ over the earth and its ever-growing population for the 1000 years. The tares that get through on this simple separation Matthew 13: 25. Will be allowed to grow up along with the wheat during the 1000 year Millennium. They will be identified by the release of Satan at the end of this period; I cannot see how you can give this period three and a half years. They will be destroyed by divine intervention. Regards to both you and your wife Dave P____. DON WROTE: Hello Dave: Thanks for taking the time to WRAP with us. You've covered much in your WRAP; so to respond, let me take your comments one at a time. Your first comment is: "I cannot get my head around your interpretation of Daniel's last week being split into two three and half-year periods, the Great Tribulation being one of these three and half year periods, with the next one at the end of the 1000 years. I believe you to be wrong!" I don't now how much of our book THE CLOCK OF THE AGES that you've read. But you apparently have not read the chapter that deals with Israel's night watches. If you will go to booklet seven, chapter twenty-eight of the CLOCK OF THE AGES, you will find that I do not teach that the Great Tribulation is one of the halves of Daniel's 70th week. In fact, you will find that I do not believe that the Tribulation Period and the Great Tribulation are one and the same. Your second comment has to do with my "case in point" where I pointed out how some of the newer translations of the Bible conflict with the King James Version. You quoted, "Instead, they prefer a wording that includes a modern, incomplete understanding. Church, we need to take care!" and then commented, "It is certainly true that the Church must take care, but you are wasting the opportunity of doing so, with this misleading warning." Again, you've not gone very deep into our web site or you would understand my comment and, hopefully, you would agree. Let me share again a part of my experience that led me to make this statement. After having been called to preach and having studied the Bible devotedly for several years, the Lord put my family and I in our first Church as a lay pastor. As a lay pastor, I was to attend the denomination's seminary. I left our parsonage for my first summer at seminary full of anticipation and excitement about the opportunity to study the Word of God with my fellow pastors. It wasn't long, however, until my excitement was quenched. With the exception of only a couple of professors, I found myself setting under a teaching that was strange to my ears and unacceptable to my regenerated spirit. My fellow pastors and I were being taught that the Bible was an old, unreliable book full of error and myth. Oh, it still had some good concepts, we were told, but our professor and their cohorts had gone through the Bible and picked out what we could put our confidence in. In addition, we were taught that for the church to be successful and accepted of men, it had to become "politically correct" and embrace the new social changes coming down the pike. And especially, it had to become more tolerant of alternative lifestyles including "living in" and homosexuality if it were to have a place in the new age coming in. My experience at seminary gave me understanding of many things including why the church was losing the power of God in its endeavors. The things I learned at seminary also lie at the heart of my "case in point" for many of the "experts" responsible for the newer translations of the Bible got their understanding at seminaries like the one that I had to attend to remain in my church as its pastor. You wrote, "The word World interpretation as used in the King James fits in better with your views of the last three and a half years which you place at the end of the 1000 years. However, Age is also just as valid." When a word has more than one meaning, the context determines which use applies. In this instance, only one meaning can be correct; and as I read the Scriptures at this point, the meaning I've applied holds. As to your hoping that I'm not completely fixed in my interpretation/views, if I've learned anything in my years of Bible study, it is to remain open to the Holy Spirit for any and all corrections. Failure to do so guarantees confusion in our understandingwhich helps to explain the confusion in the Body of Christ. I value your right to disagree with me, nevertheless, I have not found any teaching that has shown me to be wrong. If after you have read what I have to say, you can show me from the Scriptures where I am wrong; please do so and I'll share my correction with our visitors. You said, "It is not the end of the World at the end of the 1000-year period. Both World and Age do not give full meaning to this scripture. That is why it is very confusing to use the Matthew Gospel in the way it is used." I can't follow your point here, for I can think of no Scripture to substantiate it. Can you send me some Scripture to undergird the way you believe? You said, "The Rapture of the Church is no where to be found in the Gospel of Matthew, because the Jews as a Nation are not included in this event." To me, the Rapture of the Church is referred to in verses 30 and 31 of Matthew 24. "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." The way I read it, both events of our Lord's return are referred to in this passage: " the sign of the Son of man in heaven " being associated with His coming to take the Church up, and " they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory " describing His return to the earth after the wedding in heaven. It is not uncommon for the Scriptures to include both events of His return in the same passage. Another classic example is found in II Timothy 4:1. "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom." When will He judge the quick (Those who are spiritually alive)?at Judgment Seat of Christ after the Rapture. When will He judge the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)?when He returns and judges the nations prior to setting up His kingdom. You also said, "The Lord Jesus will come in the Second Coming with his bride from Heaven, to defeat the Antichrist and Satan. The peoples who are still alive on earth will be separated one from another "Sheep and Goats." This is not a judgement, it is a separation." How will they be separated? They will be separated after they have been judged to be either sheep or goats. So, to me, the world will go through both a judgment and a separation. For my understanding of this parable, go to booklet 8, chapter thirty-two of THE CLOCK OF THE AGES. (Those of you who want to read the actual Scripture to which Dave is referring can go to Matthew 25:14-46. You can zip this up on your computer by going to our Bible Treasure Button and click on the Bible Gateway icon.) Also, you wrote, "The ones who have taken the Mark of the Beast 666 will be the Goats and the sheep will go into the Millennium Kingdom. Matthew 24: 34. These are flesh and blood people who will repopulate the earth during the thousand years. We the Bride will rule with Christ over the earth and its ever-growing population for the 1000 years. The tares that get through on this simple separation Matthew 13: 25. Will be allowed to grow up along with the wheat during the 1000 year Millennium." I cannot see how you gleaned this interpretation from the following verses taken from Matthew 25.
To me, the key word here is "Then ." "Then" shall He say to them on His right hand and "then" shall He say to them on His left hand. If my understanding applies, "then" will those on His left hand be cast into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels. If this is so, then they will not get the privilege and joy of living during the Kingdom Age. It is obvious that you and I disagree on some points, but I perceive that we agree on the critical things: i.e., that Christ died for our sins and in Him is the Hope of the world. Let me leave you with a promise of our Lord. "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" John 12:32. It is grand to be able to study God's Word to show ourselves approved unto Him, but it is even a greater joy to hold Him up to the world. May God continue to bless you in both endeavors. Love, Don |
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Glenn
wrote: Hi my name is Glenn W______ and I have a question regarding the end time prophecy if you could help me I would appreciate it. My question is this, during the abomination of desolation the animal sacrifices will be stopped. well why did they begin anyway? It is my understanding that Jesus was and is the ultimate sacrifice and he established the new covenant with us and did away with this practice, so why are the animal sacrifices starting back up? thanks for your help in advance Glenn W______ Don wrote: Dear Glenn: You mention the abomination of desolation in your question. For my comments on the abomination of desolation, go to booklet four, chapter twelve of THE CLOCK OF THE AGES. As to your question: " during the abomination of desolation the animal sacrifices will be stopped well. why did they begin anyway?" Remember, the national, Orthodox Jews are not Christians. In fact, they have steadfastly refused to accept Him as the Son of God ever since their ancestors stirred up the Roman authorities and had Him crucified. Because they refuse to accept the Messiah God sent to be the LAMB OF GOD that taketh away the sins of the world, they are still trying to function as they did before Jesus visited the earth and died for the sin of the world. Consequently, they think that they need to continue the things ordained by Moses and the prophets which include sacrifices of animals and birds and looking for a messiah. Hope this answers your question. Thanks for taking the time to WRAP with us. Love, Don |
A BIBLE STUDENT WROTE: I am in a college and career group at my church and was wondering if under the copyright of the material off of the internet that if we could use the printed material in a bible study of the prophecy and the like. Thank you for your time and God Bless DON LOVE WROTE: Dear Bible Student: Our web site is the fruit of a lifetime of Bible study. We have put it up on the web to make it available to "whosoever will." Please feel free to use the information in anyway that would promote the cause of Christ. We have copyrighted the material for all the obvious reasons including protection of the authenticity and integrity of the material; and we do ask that when you use the material, you include our web site address so that others can find us. Also, we, obviously, do not want someone making money from our lifetime of work, especially since we have opted to make it available to anyone at no charge. So, thanks for being nice enough to ask our permission before using the material, but it really isn't necessary. May God bless your endeavors for His Son. In that you are a Bible student, I assume that you have opted to give your life to the service of our Lord Jesus and your fellow man. If you would like to hear some "music that makes a difference," click on our SINGERS OF HEART button on our home page. I think you would enjoy in particular one of the songs. Click here to hear to hear the song entitled The Way Of Love. Years ago, I dreamed the song in its entirety, and when I awoke from the dream, the Lord impressed upon me that B'Ann was to sing it to the nations. For awhile I struggled to find a way to take our family overseas, but to no avail. Finally, I gave the dream to the Lord. Little did I know at that time that the Internet would come into existence or that we would have our site. Through the Internet system, we are now traveling to places our physical body could never go. I hope you enjoy all of our music. Thanks for taking the time to WRAP with us. Don Love |
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T_______
WROTE: Pardon me for asking but I was doing a search on Revelations and I found your site. I was wondering if there is a site you could direct me to that might allow me to find an audience for such books authors seek to sell dealing with material such as your own site displays? Thx & may the sun warm you and yours. B'ANN WROTE: We had trouble getting our books published because we were told that there was already plenty of material similar to it on the market. At that time there were facets of the Bible on the market. Each author seemed to take a particular saying/formula/slogan and build his or her entire ministry upon it. This will not stand the test of time! The "prosperity message", "the name it claim it", " you are what you say", "you are what you think", "heavenly language", writings etc. were taken and expounded upon at great length. Further on in their spiritual walk, readers began to discover that there was more to Jesus than material gains, claims, great swirling words of wisdom, chanting and thinking, or tongues. As people began to read deeper into the Bible, the idea that He was a complete person and that the Bible cannot be taken in bits and pieces began to emerge. The old saying, "Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage" began to hold true. The bride isn't a bride without a groom; neither is the carriage of much use without a horse. Because the Christ of the Bible was not being presented, many tried the slogans/formulas without having a "born again" experience; and as a result, they suffered great frustration. Because the life of a Christian was not presented as a life of service to God and man, others became disillusioned when they gave to a group/ministry and it didn't come back "one hundred fold" as given. For some, it may have returned a "hundred fold" in some form but most expected it to return in the form given, i. e., money for money, home for home. For these, the frustration occurred because they did not understand the story of Ruth. She had to glean the grain left on the ground after the harvest for a while before the "hundred fold" blessings became apparent. Even then, as the following Scripture shows, much of the promise came long after she was gone.
As we can see from the Scriptures, Ruth not only became "rich" in the true riches of this life before she left it, but she also laid up treasures in heaven, becoming the grandmother of David, the greatest king of Israel to date and the recipient of many tremendous promises yet to come.
1 Samuel 16:19 Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep. 1 Chronicles 29:26 Also, because of her desire to please God and to help others, she became an integral part of the bloodline of the Savior of mankind, the future King of the World. Romans 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. Matthew 1:1 And Ruth is only one such example in the Bible. SO Why do I say all this when you asked how to find an audience/market for books? The reason we write a book is very important. If we expect immediate gratification, then the effect of the writing may be compromised in the long run. Earlier on in our ministry, we noticed that if someone wrote a "cutesy" book with slogans and a reading level of about the fourth grade level, then mass audiences would accept it. We also noticed that these writers were emphasizing only one precept of the Bible. Nonetheless, the church world seemed to embrace this new wave of revelation/fad for a season. However, the Bible has a "bottom line" precept which is the scarlet thread throughout all the Scriptures. This is the Blood of Christ shed upon the Cross of Calvary for the sin of the world. There is nothing "cutesy" about this. We cannot cheapen the cause of Christ; we cannot commercialize it, we cannot make it into light, entertaining reading. It was written by God, through the Holy Spirit, to magnify His Son, Christ Jesus. In our books, we try to broaden the scope of thinking. DOWEKNOW simply says, "Do we know very much at all?" or "Do we know what we need to know?" I was watching television and the time line of man in relationship to time as we know if was about as wide as a human hair. We haven't had time to learn too much. And most of this has been given to us through the "big bang" theory and not through the creation account. We have tried to challenge, if you will, the religious community to rethink the things it has adopted from the world and the traditions that it has accepted from the different denominations. The fact that there are so many divisions in the church, causing so much distrust among those who claim the name of Christ, prompts us to wonder, DOWEKNOW the truth yet. We decided to publish our books on the web because a publisher would limit their distribution. Perhaps the books would make it into only select bookstores that the publisher preferred. Or maybe the books would sit on a shelf, in a particular store, on a particular street, and never be read by the ones that need it. Access to the truth, or a search for the truth, should not be limited by distribution, money, or preference for reading. We wanted to challenge all to reconsider Matthew 11:29 which says: "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. By putting our writings on the Internet, we feel that anyone in the world can have access to them. We further encourage people to send their comments to us on our WRAP AROUND; for we do not set ourselves up to be experts, such as Scofield or Dake. However, we must remember that they were just Christians trying to answer a call and move God's people into a deeper understanding of the Scriptures. Yet, we must not stop at Scofield or Dake or any of the commentators. Nor should we put to much emphasis on the newer forms of the Bible, for commentaries and interpretations are only as good as the understanding of the commentator or interpreters. We need to try to stay with translators which strived to keep the older, Holy Spirit inspired text intact. And individually, we must move deeper into the Scriptures and find what God has to say to each of us, for we are each called to an individual walk with its own unique needs. If we have a catchy or "cutesy" phrase it would be DOWEKNOW, but we only coined this word to cause people to rethink their beliefs and purposes as Christians. The church world has seen enough commercialism about Christianity--enough self-serving books have been sold, enough teaching tapes have been "hawked", and enough is enough. Now, we need people to do as Timothy admonished.
Strength of character, moral fortitude, and spiritual authority do not come from "cutesy" phrases or slogans, but from devoted Bible study. The life of a successful Christian is a relationship with Christ and no relationship that must go through a third party can be satisfactory. Slogans, formulas, creeds, charters, etc., cannot attain a personal relationship with Christ. It can only be acquired by those who first have a "born again" experience with Christ Jesus and who then study the Word of God so they can grow on the sincere milk of the Word. True, part of our learning/growing process can come from the shared experiences/gleanings of others, but the things that others have learned by being obedient to Christ can only serve as spiritual "gator aid" for you and I. The spiritual truths and understanding that can sustain us through the heat of the day must be gleaned by each of us as we give ourselves to the daily "washing" and "strengthening" of the Word and the "regeneration" of the Holy Spirit. I say all that to say this: if you sense that you are "called" to share some understanding or experience with the Body of Christ, let nothing deter you. However, do not let what you may or may not see or feel govern your activities; for we know that Christ is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us (Eph. 3:20). Thanks for WRAPPING with us, B'Ann Love |
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Aubrey
Wrote: I am a person with a need to know the truth about serving God. I use the King James Bible and love to closely read the Word of God. J.W.'s and Mormons would like me to join their belief, why are they the only ones who come to my house? Could you tell me how to explain the Trinity? Do you have any of the information on your web site available to purchase? All I want in life is to know the truth about God and how to serve Him. I need Word study books on the Scripture such as Word Studies by Kenneth Wuest, only on the Old Testament, do you know of any? My name is Aubrey ______. Don & B'Ann Wrote: You wrote: "I am a person with a need to know the truth about serving God. I
use the Good! Stay with the King James Version of the Bible because it is a translation, not a commentary or interpretation. Commentaries and interpretations can get off on "fringe tangents" or liberalism can creep in and scatter the "bottom line" message of the Scriptures. The "bottom line" intent of the Bible is simply: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3: 16). Christ died on the cross for the sin of the world and this scarlet thread of redemption by His blood runs throughout the Bible. Any group that tries to enter any other way is in this classification.
You wrote: "J.W.'s and Mormons would like me to join their belief, why are they the only ones who come to my house?" I have already alluded to your question about the J.W's (Jehovah Witnesses) and Mormons. They have a "fringe tangent" that does not present the entire Christ. They have built their entire "belief" system on a new or private "revelation" about the Scriptures. Of such teachings, Paul wrote:
The Old Testament tells us of a group that was not unlike the J.W.'s and the Mormons and their counterparts today. We're talking about the group that built the Tower of Babel. They did not want to approach God or attain heaven in the manner required by God. So, they just proceeded to build a projectile into the "heavens" and bypass God. God had commanded the people of that day to simply scatter and replenish the earth that had just experienced the flood. However, they had other plans as we see in Genesis 11:2-9.
To understand why what they did was so displeasing to God, we need only to look at verse 4 where they said, " let us make us a name." God's covenant had been handed down to them through Noah.
Rather than moving across the earth and replenishing it as they had been commanded of God, they chose to come together and build a city with their name on itto honor themselves as the survivors of flood, as God's chosen "elect," if you will. This was their downfall. Today, everyone that believes upon the only Begotten Son of God is the "elect" of God. However, by trying to make the "salvation" of God available and under the control of a particular city/sect/cult/creed/doctrine/, etc., will only result in God's displeasure. The commission to the Church also involves "scattering" and establishing God's covenant, only today we live under the New Testament Covenant which was sealed by the blood of Christ. Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." For those with eyes to see, it is obvious that the church is failing in its commission. This was made clear to us just recently. This past week we had a visit from a fellow minister and precious friend who was concerned because he sees the church substituting its own agendas in the place of the Lord's. "Jesus did not say, go ye into all the world and preach the prosperity message', the Jesus only' message, the social gospel,' the once-saved always saved' stance, the saved and lost' stance, etc. We are told to go into the world and preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. This is how souls are converted and people are born into the Kingdom of God," was his comment. "How foolish it would be to take the prosperity message to the starving villages in Africa, or the tongues' disagreement to a soul drowning in the consequences of his sins," he added. With this, I concur. Also, if we'll consider Jesus' message about the "elect," the bottom line was always "whosoever will may come."
Deny what? Deny that He was the only Begotten Son of God who was born of a Virgin and sent to save the lostbeginning first with the lost sheep of Israel and then to the Gentiles which includes all the rest of the human race. This is where we can separate the true from the false. What do they do with Jesus? How do they present Him to the world? Do they believe that He was born of a virgin? Consider Luke 1:35:
If they don't believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, then they are of the antichrist of which John wrote.
The virgin birth is only one criterion by which we can know the real from the counterfeit. If everyone in the world were simply familiar with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, then there would be no place for false Christ's or false teachings about Christ. Because this is not the case, the world needs to see and hear from those who know Him to be the Son of God. For ministers there is also a test. Do they present a complete picture of Jesus or do they use His name for their own purposes? Do they try to present the whole counsel of God or do they present only the parts of the Bible that would make them popular with or support the teachings of a certain group? If we are in the last days as we believe, we need to be aware that II Timothy 4:3 is now in effect. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears." And finally, do they present the soul winning commandments which were Jesus last words; or do they have some other basic cause as their agenda? In the light of all the confusion brought about by the self-serving ministers/ministries, why does God leave sect/cults/cities with their own religious agendas as "high places" on the earth? Is it not to merely give people a choice? As to your question: " why are they the only ones who come to my house?" Their cultish makeup is at the root of the answer; for all such organizations are driven by either self-interest or fearand both are strong motivators. As to why the J.W.'s and the Mormons are so busy, they are trying to earn their positions in heaven by how many hours they give to their groups. Christ simply asks that we serve Him because we love Himyou can take it from there. You wrote: "Could you tell me how to explain the Trinity?" For our comments on the Trinity, let me refer you to our comments to J_____R______ in our August, 1999, WRAP AROUNDS. You wrote: "Do you have any of the information on your web site available to purchase?" If you will notice, everything on our site is made available to our fellow cybernauts at no charge. We only ask that if something on our site is a blessing to you, that you share it with someone else. You wrote: "I need Word study books on the Scripture such as Word Studies by
Kenneth Wuest, In my opinion you can't go wrong if you study Watchman Nee's books or the Self-Study Guides by Irving L. Jensen. The books that I use the most in my own personal library for research and study are the Thompson Chain-Reference Bible, the Scofield Study Bible (except for some of its notes on prophecy, it is excellent), The Amplified Bible, and the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. Every child of God that has wanted to study the Word to show himself approved to God has wondered what to study. But there is a promise and a gift of the Spirit that can take the uncertainty out of our studies. The promise is:
The gift is listed in the gifts of the Spirit in I Corinthians.
Consequently, if we will study the Bible, relying upon the Holy Spirit to teach us and to lead us into all truth, we can be confident that He will do just that. Also, if we will learn to rely upon the Spirit to let us know when a teaching is valid, He will do this as well. At least, that has been our experience. Thanks for taking the time to WRAP with us, Don & B'Ann Love |
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