ESTER WROTE:

Question-Comment: Someone just gave me this URL for your site...and I wanted to check it out.

I just barely looked at the first page..it is after 3:30 am now so am tired....but intend on exploring it...more....

I got saved at the age of 11 and have grown up in church all my life.

Praise God He had a plan for my mother and siblings. I grew up with an alcoholic father who finally got saved late in his life.  I prayed from the time I was 11 for him and never gave up....

I praise God for all of it !

I did have a question for you if I might ?

What church/denomination are you associated with ? (not that a denomination can save you and not that all of them preach the whole of the Word) but just curious.

I guess you could say I am cautious about Christian sites if I know nothing about them. but I do believe the Holy Spirit guides us in our every day lives. Also, do you believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues?  Again--just curious!

Thank You and keep up the good work for Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. "The Harvest is all ready, but the laborers are few"

I Truly believe Jesus is Coming Soon! that is not a prophecy just an observation of our times.

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU, IN HIS SERVICE,

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Thanks for taking time to Wrap with us.

You say that someone sent you our URL address.  We thank the Lord for this.   It has been our prayer from the beginning of our site that God would put it in the hearts of men and women to visit our pages.  We believe word-of-mouth to be the very best method of promotion; and if you are blessed by what the Lord has given us, please pass it on.

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You don't tell us your age, but from your WRAP it would seem that you are still young.   (Not many of us oldsters are up at 3:30 in the morning studying the Word of God.)   If you will continue in the Word, you can be assured that God will prepare you and make you a blessing to others. 

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As to any affiliation with a denomination, you might want to check out our WRAP with Mr. Stark in our October, 2002 WRAP AROUNDs.

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As to your caution when surfing the web, you are being obedient to the Word which warns us not to put our confidence in man, but to put our trust in the Lord.  I, too, wrestled with this matter of whom to listen to when I first began my walk with the Lord.   This really became a matter of concern for my family and I when we first began singing / ministering in different churches of the many differing denominations and beliefs.  It wasn't unusual for us to find ourselves sitting under various teachers and preachers who all thought themselves to be a light for the Lord, yet, who taught contradicting concepts and even opposed one another from their pulpits.  Lest my children become confused and disillusioned, I prayed for help; and the Lord Jesus introduced me to the gift of discernment and dropped it into our spirits.

I Cor. 12:
⁴   Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
⁵   And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
⁶   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
⁷   But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
⁸   For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
⁹   To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
¹⁰   To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
¹¹   But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Since that time we have learned to rely upon the Holy Spirit whenever we listen to or read the teachings of another.  Because we ministered in so many different kinds of churches, we soon learned that most all of them had elements of truth that the Holy Spirit could anoint.  In fact, after services, we would often find ourselves commenting on how that certain things that had been taught became real to us while other things sort of fell by the wayside.  To anyone who surfs the web looking for some spiritual food, I would recommend that you seek this gift of discernment and learn to rely upon it.  It will save a lot of time and eliminate a lot of confusion. 

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As to the "baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues," to answer you requires some Bible research. We won't do a thorough study, but we'll do enough to show problems with the doctrine. (You might want to finish the study by searching out all Scripture dealing with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  For what it's worth, when I began study the Bible by topic, which is what we'll be doing, I found that I could glean more if I would write out the Scriptures in question.  I like to speed read, and writing the Scriptues out would slow me down so that the Lord could drop more into my spirit.)   Let's begin our research by putting the word   "evidence" into one of the on-line search Bibles on our site and we'll see that the term is not in the New Testament except in Hebrews 11:1 where it has nothing to do with tongues, but faith!

Heb. 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Also, if we'll go to the Book of Acts (the history of the formation of the NT Church) and study out all of the conversions recorded there, we'll find a variation of conversions--and we can rest assured that God had a purpose in mind for each example that He had recorded for us.  Let's go to that book and consider some of the chapters having to do with conversions.

Chapter One: After His resurrection, Jesus again promises His followers the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Chapter Two: The day of Pentecost arrives and the Spirit is given in a spectacular way including the sound of a mighty rushing wind, cloven tongues of fire on the heads of the believers, and speaking with tongues. (Question? How is it that those who insist that one must speak in tongues to truly be saved never mention the sound of a mighty rushing wind or the tongues of fire? If this is the pattern that must be followed, then why just tongues?  Why not also include the sound of rushing wind and the cloven tongues of fire?)

Chapters Three-Nine

There are many people converted in these chapters, but there is no mentioning of the baptism of the Holy Spirit evidenced by the speaking of tongues..

Chapter Ten

In this chapter the centurion Cornelius of an Italian band (not a Jew) is gloriously saved.

44-48
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

Cornelius receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit and it is accompanied with the gift of speaking in tongues like Peter and the disciples received at Pentecost, a sign to Peter and the Jews with him that indeed God had received Cornelius as His own.  Paul refers to this particular gift of tongues in his epistle to the Corinthians.

1Cor 1:22
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

I Cor 14:17-23
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

If you'll continue to study out tongues, you will find that they were not given as a sign for the Gentiles, but for the Jews.  (That Peter needed a sign is evident if we look at all it took to get him ready and willing to go to the Gentile Cornelius. [See Acts 10:10-17.])  The signs for the Gentiles at the beginning of the NT Church were mostly healings and miracles.  However, as the Church became established, the fruit of the Spirit was added as a "sign" for the unbeliever--be they Gentile or Jew.  Continue studying out all the examples of conversions in the New Testament and you'll find that few mention anything about speaking in tongues and NONE set forth that gift as an evidence of being saved!

Today, a converted life is a strong testimony to the believer's friends and family.   Sadly, the gifts of healing and miracles have diminished to the point that they are hard to find, yet, they are still available for those who believe.

Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things [are] possible to him that believeth.   

Jesus didn't leave us this promise to torment us, but that we might receive all that He has to give us.

Maranatha,

Don

DON WROTE:

We are asked this question quite often.  If you will go to our WRAP with Kathleen on our September #2, 2002 WRAPs, you will see that we have include a link to a site showing the jacinth which we're told is also a zircon.

Do you know anything about the person Mary Stewart Relfe and her book "When Your Money Fails"? Someone gave me a copy years ago that I read twice. It corroborated with some science I'm familiar with. Since end-times is such a hot subject and can cause much division I've avoided it (or at least debating it) since slewfoot likes to divide and conquer. My sense is that the church is asleep and Jesus Christ is about to administer a wake-up call. Recently, there has been much talk about the rapture and that believers will not have to go through persecution. This seems like a satanic trick to allow believers to live by an "Oh, wretched man that I am." mentality and be content and complacent about the command of Jesus Christ to share His Good News, except  in the most convienient ways.  Recent internet searches on the book above show far more negative than positive.  After reading the negatives and who it is coming from and the inability to find or contact the author lots of questions come to mind. Even if she is not credible the lack of clear reasoning indicates a very sensitive nerve has been touched.

It seems to me that the best witness we have to the world around us is our love for each other.  That hits their brain hard because they can't explain it in terms they are familiar with. And it puts us in a better position to handle adversity. There does not seem to be enough of this love that Jesus Christ told us to have in the body of believers. If we don't do it willingly He may put us in adversity to wake us up.

My Weekly Bible class is on the subject of Daniel's 70 weeks. Some years ago I was shown a story about China prior to the communist takeover. It said China had been hearing the Gospel for many years, that there were many churches, and they had become complacent.   As fears of communist takeover spread the pastors taught nobody should worry because there would be a rapture and so they would escape. Then the communists went into the churches and slaughtered believers. China overnight went from Christian to godless as upset people abandoned the churches.

The article I described seemed credible and it would be great if I could find accurate information to support or discount it. Would any of you know about this?

Mountains of blessings.

H. Gregory B______,

Don Wrote:

The first I’ve heard of the lady is your WRAP. I, too, went to the Internet; and from the critiques I encountered, her book had some problems, Scripturally speaking. For example, she tried to put a name to the "beast" of Revelation, even though the Bible says that he will not be revealed until after the Church goes up in the Rapture. This would suggest that she is not proficient with the Word, or that she wrote the book for reasons other than to bless the Church. However, your inquiry brings an observation to mind. There has been much written and published in the past two or three decades concerning Biblical prophecy that is questionable. This includes a multitude of web sites. Some of these works seem to want to pass on ideas while others, especially some of the more popular, seem written for entertainment, but most all of them take liberties with the Scriptures. Upon reflection, I feel that all of this as a whole is not all bad in that it is but one of the signs that could be predicted for a generation destined to live through the things prophesied for the end of our age. For the Church, it is a wake-up call to come to the Bible on an individual basis and "study to show ourselves approved unto God."

As to your comments on China, only God knows how many of the reported persecutions of the Church in China actually took place. However, China is not the only place were believers are being persecuted for their faith in Christ. If you will check our DECEMBER #3-2002-WRAP AROUNDS, you will read where people are being killed today for their faith.

Over all, much has taken place in the name of the Church since the inception of the Church for reasons other than building the Church and magnifying the name of the Lord Jesus. People have built armies, nations, cults, organizations, etc., in the name of Christianity in ignorance or for their own personal interest. However, we shouldn’t find this to be depressing, for the Bible forewarned us that this would all take place. But we should also remember that Jesus said, "…upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Mat. 16:18). (By the way, your hesitancy to accept things at face value is wise—especially in the day that we live when rewriting history is a tool often used by those who want to change social mores and norms.)

Let me finish my response to your comments by quoting from them. You wrote:

It seems to me that the best witness we have to the world around us is our love for each other. That hits their brain hard because they can't explain it in terms they are familiar with. And it puts us in a better position to handle adversity. There does not seem to be enough of this love that Jesus Christ told us to have in the body of believers. If we don't do it willingly, He may put us in adversity to wake us up.

I couldn’t say it better myself.

Maranatha,

B'Ann Wrote:

B’Ann Wrote:

Even if we live in the "end-time", we must remember that it is a time of God’s Wrath and not ours. We are to continue to witness and hopefully birth souls into the kingdom. This is how the Church "endures to the end" / keeps its watch. The "slothful servant" in the New Testament Church is simply one that stops witnessing the message of John 3:16. This is the power of the New Testament. We must not stop the Grace Age dispensation / message / call just because we think God is going to usher in another age. The Great Commission will apply to "our age" until the very moment that God makes the change in administration. Being very human, mankind often tries to hurry God and force His Hand before the appointed time. We see many impatient ministers that sound like a "hung record" because they cry "end-time, end-time, end-time." We are not allowed to participate in God’s Wrath!!! It is His alone!!! He did not even let Jesus know the time or the hour. We are only allowed to operate in the Gifts and Fruits of the Spirit. To yell "end-time" and not remind people that the "fields are white unto harvest" is a cruel thing to do because it takes their mind off the "go ye into all the world and witness" command of God. If people saw a vicious storm approaching, they would gather their crops as fast as possible before the crop was totally ruined. This is what God wants the end-time Christian to be doing. The Scriptures that admonish that no man can know the time of season is an explicit warning.

Acts 1
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Perhaps God did not reveal a specific end-time moment because He wanted to give ample time for men to change. Who knows, if enough people would repent, God might stay His Hand just as He did at Nineveh. All things are possible!!! After all, our age is called the "Age of Grace/Unmerited Favor." God can extend it or shorten it. In this sense, the time of the end of our age may very well be in the hands of man. Nevertheless, we do have a clue that perhaps mankind will not repent so that "Grace" can be extended.

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

To our Cyber-visitors:

Any of you that know anything about the book by Mary Relfe or the history of the Church in China, let us know and we'll put it up with this WRAP AROUND for Gregory and anyone else who might be interested.

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