RACHEL WROTE:

Hi, I have just recently been going to your church. I grew up Lutheran. I was baptized as a baby and just recently have been told I am not saved because I need to get an adult baptism. Is an adult baptism a prerequisite to get into heaven? Why can't the Holy Spirit descend upon a baptized baby? After all it says in the Bible that people baptized "households." The Bible also doesn't specify any certain age. The Bible only says you need to be baptized.

Please write me back with a response.

God Bless

Rachel

DON WROTE:

Hi Rachel,

Thanks for WRAPPING with us.

As I attempt to answer your questions, please keep in mind where I am coming from. Because I was not raised in a church and strongly indoctrinated in any particular belief, when I did my study of the Bible, for the most part, I was not trying to make the Bible agree with any preconceived ideas. I just wanted to know what it had to say. (I say for the most part, because I have found that it is impossible to live in this world for any length of time before some ideas flying around in the air find a place to lodge. Consequently, even with my lack of denominational indoctrination, I find myself having to submit my understanding to the Lord over and over for truth and objectivity.)

First off, let me say that the Bible does not teach infant baptism—that is a man-made precept! But then, neither does the Bible teach that one must be baptized by water before he or she can receive the gift of eternal life—that too is an additive of man, and one that does much harm. For the basis of my comments, CLICK HERE and go to our study on Scriptural baptism.) There is a lot in your WRAP, so let me comment upon it a little at a time. Your comments are italicized.

"I have just recently been going to your church."

I'm curious. What church do you feel is my church? If you go on into our web site, you should find that we feel the Church to be a Body, not an organization. And that all who receive Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior belong to that Body. This is as opposed to the local churches which, instead of being a local part of the Body overall, think of themselves as being a part of some "division/denomination" of the church--i.e., a man-made organization. This is not to belittle fellowshipping with the saints of God, for this is important to our spiritual welfare, but it is to say that the building in which you gather is not the church, nor is the organization that owns the building. This statement also assumes that the local group with which you fellowship is Scripturally sound.

"I grew up Lutheran. I was baptized as a baby and just recently have been told I am not saved because I need to get an adult baptism. Is an adult baptism a prerequisite to get into heaven?"

We've already stated that "infant baptism" is not a Scriptural term, but a tradition that has been added by man. We've also pointed out that there is no Scripture to support the teaching that one must be baptized before they can be saved or receive the gift/baptism of the Holy Ghost. We contend that the Scriptures teach the water baptism to be an act of obedience and one of the very first things that the born-again believer gets to do for his/her Master. Before we were called to be an evangelist, we were first a local pastor. The church in which we served embraced the tradition of infant baptism, but from the perspective that this was an act of the parent(s) wherein they dedicated their newborn to the Lord Jesus. In turn, the local body pledged to help in any way that it could to bring the one being baptized to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus as it grew up in their church. Incorporated in this tradition was the understanding that the infant would one day need to make his own commitment to Christ after which he would be expected to be baptized of his own volition. We felt then, and still feel, that this approach is acceptable and does not contradict the Scriptures. If we were still a pastor and you were in our congregation, we would recommend that you enter into what is known as "believer's baptism"—i.e., be baptized into the local body of your choice thereby declaring to heaven and earth that you are now a follower of Christ.

"Why can't the Holy Spirit descend upon a baptized baby?"

The Holy Spirit can descend upon a baby. In fact, we are given an account in the Bible of where He did just that.

Luke 1:
39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

This is just one instance of when the Spirit of God has anointed infants while they were still in the womb. Nevertheless, this does not alter the fact that infant baptism is not Scriptural. (This should let a thinking person know how God feels about the unborn babies that we are slaughtering in the name of freedom of choice. But then, the choice to destroy or to bring forth life is part of the package of man's free will—however, we should also consider that with that freedom of choice comes the responsibility for our actions.)

After all it says in the Bible that people baptized "households."

As to baptizing "households," when read in context, and in the light of the rest of the Scriptures, those passages are probably best interpreted to mean the baptism of those who had received Christ.

The Bible also doesn't specify any certain age.

That is true. This is probably because it is not the age that God considers, but ones commitment to follow His Only Begotten Son.

Your finish up by saying, "The Bible only says you need to be baptized."

I guess I'll let you answer yourself here. If you have believed in your heart that Christ died for your sin and confessed with your mouth that you believe He was resurrected from the dead and is at the right hand of the Father making intercession for you and for all saints—then according to the Scriptures, you are recipient of God's gift of eternal life and His Spirit abides in you. (Only you know if this is so or not.) If this is so. the question remaining is, what will you do about this matter of the believer's baptism?

God bless you,

Don Love

B'Ann Wrote:

Perhaps just a strong caution. As you relate it to present day "lifestyles" be sure that it agrees with the Scriptures on a particular issue/subject. Too many of us are "integrating Christ" into our own personalities and do not let Him transform us by the renewing of our minds. We have reduced Christ to "causes" and "fund raising" tactics and have forgotten His real purpose for dying on the cross. Christianity is not a "cause" or a "club". It is a walk and a lifestyle built upon certain precepts.

Please, before you write, take the time to research all the references to these Scriptures and present the truths of your play accordingly.

I salute your care and the effort you want to put forth.

B'Ann

Welcome to the third edition of The Christian letter. Those who have eyes, let them see..Verse of the week: ...faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:17

Challenge of the week: Simple! Show God how much you love Him by your actions of faith. This weeks writing (a bit long but that's ok)

DO YOU BELIEVE?

It burdens me to write this. I've heard so many Christians (family and friends) say they dislike or even hate the churches and people that shout out amen and sing and dance in the name and glory of the Lord. They tell me its outdated, improper, or just plain dumb. "They have their way and I have mine" I hear that so often, but I think not, there is only one-way to glorify the King. So don't be telling me to sit down, cause I'm on fire for the Lord! Jesus Christ said, "If they people keep quiet, the stones will cry out." Luke 19:14. So I am not going to be quiet, louder maybe, but never quiet. Because it is written, "So, because you are lukewarm neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth." Revelations 3:16. And so I'm afire. Why? "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes…Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed!

I believe! I believe that through Christ I can move mountains and walk on water. I believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection. I believe in the supernatural powers of prayer to the Lord of all glory. I believe that God is as alive today as He was 2,000 years ago and I believe in the prophets and their prophecies.

A good friend of mine put it best when he said, "You either don't believe in God at all or you believe so full heartedly that the very thought of doing anything against God would terrify you." So if you believe too then halleluiah! You have the same amount of faith as Satan. "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe – and shudder." James 2:19

Now for my real question …do you follow?

Woe to us when we praise His name in good times or at church and then curse it in pain, work or school.

"…And anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:38 "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." Mark 16:15. Follow Him in His footstep if you believe. I know that wwjd has been done to death in terms of marketing but in terms of what we should do, it will remain a solid question forevermore.

You and I will both fail from time to time but so to did His chosen disciples fall short at times. But no matter what, He is always there to pull us back up when we lose faith. Sometimes I think to myself that I would have been so much stronger then the disciples but I then realize that every day of my life I drive the nails of sin into his hands. This is a point but not today's point. We mustn't say we would stand up for Christ; we must stand up for Christ. To live is death while you're awake if you do not know the way. Jesus is the way, so follow Him. But beware that you do not become as what is spoken of in Matthew 7:15-23 which reads "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruits you will recognize them. 21 Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father Who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and drive out demons and perform many miracles?" 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I was so afraid when I first read that, I prayed a prayer like Psalms 139: 23-24, to ask Him to test me now and not latter. Please feel free to do so as well. "Search me, O God, and know my heart: test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way of everlasting." Amen!

…

_________________________________

B'ANN WROTE:

(Because of the length of Trent's comments, I will reply near the beginning. Please feel free to continue reading the rest of his comments.)

Dear "Trent",

I am delighted that you have found such personal joy with the Lord. Yet, as I read what you have to share, I find that you certainly have touched upon three points of controversy; namely,

1. what is true believing?
2. how should a person worship? and
3. what is meant by following Christ/taking the Great Commission, which were His last words before ascending?

First, you are correct. It is not enough just to "believe" that there might have been a Christ simply because history verifies that He existed, and your scripture was well taken.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devils do not have to accept Him by faith nor are they allowed to at this point. The Scriptures do teach that they were once in heaven with Him and they do not just believe that He might exist. They absolutely, positively know He exists because they were cast down from His presence when they choose to follow Lucifer as recorded in II Peter 2:4. We could do well to read these Scripture.

II Peter 2:1-8
1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the
Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6) And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7) And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8) (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds;) …

Secondly, the matter of "worship" was addressed in your writing. The Scripture do say:

John 4:23

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

We can go back to the time before "the hour cometh" when Christ Jesus, the One who was in the process of removing the awful burden of the "law" and making "grace" available to whosoever will. Did our Lord's death on the cross and the gift of the "Holy Spirit " change the things He addressed? Or do we still have the type of worship that he spoke about in Matthew 6:6?

Mat 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

This is good. So good that let's look at this verse in its context!

Mat 6:
1) Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2) Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of
men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3) But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4)That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5)And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they
may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6)But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall
reward thee openly.
7)But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8)Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10)Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
11) Give us this day our daily bread.
12 )And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13)And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14)For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 )But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16) Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17) But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18) That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

The manner in which we personally like to worship is addressed by the Apostle Paul.

Romans 14
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

We are a body, soul, and spirit. The body is for world consciousness, the soul is for self-consciousness (your personality: like-dislikes, etc.), and the spirit is for God consciousness. I HAVE AN ALARM that we confuse these in our worship. We may manifest all types of BODILY CONTORTIONS that might have nothing to do with the God conscious part of us. Even if we are supposedly manifesting Christ with our body language, we can still never replace the responsibility of telling people, in a calm and coherent way, the message of John 3:16 and its ultimate meaning. You might jump, run, shout, gyrate, whoop, flip, shake or do whatever, but if the people do not go away with a message, such as the one given by the believers that spilled from the upper room; then, all anyone has seen is a manifestation of the body and soul. The Spirit was never allowed to manifest because of the persons strong body and soul sensations. Can the body and soul have manifestations energized by the Spirit? Yes, most certainly, but it would have to follow the example set forth as the believers came out of the upper room.

Acts 2:
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

…

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

…

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, …
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

…

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

I have further ALARM with our tumultuous idea of what God has to be when we only stir up the BODY and the SOUL part of us. It is no BIG DEAL TO FEEL YOUR LEGS START TO RESPOND TO RHYTHM. I can do this if I am listening to the radio, whether it be country, rock, gospel, etc. WE NEED TO GET OUR HEADS ON STRAIGHT ABOUT WHAT IS A "MOVE" OF GOD AND WHAT "MOVES" US. The whole world "moves" to the universal language of music. I appreciate that we do have "rhythm in our bones" that can make us feel good in the natural. HOWEVER, ONLY A BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN CAN "MOVE" TO A "MOVE" OF GOD. There is a great difference! We should not make God cheap and vulgar, but neither should we quench what He wants done. WHAT DOES HE WANT DONE? HE WANT ATTENTION BROUGHT TO WHAT HIS SON DID ON THE CROSS, NOT ATTENTION TO US!

If the things we do promotes the message of John 3:16, then, we are justified in doing our drama in the name of the Lord. If, however, they result in bringing attention only to ourselves, to fund-raising tactics, or "bigger and better barns"/buildings, then shame on us.

1 Kings 19
4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree:
5 … then an angel touched him, …
6 And he looked…
7 And the angel of the LORD came again the second time, and touched him,…
8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength …
9 And he came thither unto a cave,…the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

If we read the rest of this passage, we will discover that the prophet was ALONE, that his heart was utterly broken, and the result of this encounter did not draw attention to the prophets bodily manifestations nor fund-raising for some project that men wanted. It resulted in a message that was CRUCIAL to the people of the day. There was intense action and results from this encounter with the "still small voice." Where was the "kingdom of self" in this writing? It was virtually non-existent.

I Kings 19:
15 And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness …: and when thou comest, anoint…
19 So he departed thence, and found Elisha …who was plowing ..and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.
20 And he left the oxen, and ran after Elijah
21 Then he arose, and went after Elijah, and ministered unto him.

Take time to read the rest of this chapter and learn about true fervor for the Lord.

It is almost impossible to hear the small voice of God with surround sound beating at our ears. The same type of surround sound used for concerts in the church settings can appeal in the same "body and soulical way" that the music of Elvis, the Beatles, or Brittany Speers would do at a secular concert. I enjoy listening to the radio/TV, but the pleasant sensations that sooth my soul or the rhythmic sensations of my body are just that…a response from me to something I like…my personality if you will. They are not energized by the Holy Spirit. We cannot minister to the Spirit by stirring up the parts of us that are under the laws of nature (body) or laws of personality (soul).

Galatians 3:
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Abraham was not justified because he did a "bodily" act. He was justified because "a hearing of faith" brought about a "belief", then a "bodily act of obedience" followed. The Spirit will not follow our "bodily acts". It will always come by the process of hearing/believing/ "bodily act", respectively. The whole Jewish nation has stumbled to this day because they thought the bodily act of circumcision would be accounted for righteousness. It was meant to be a symbol of trust/belief/hearing from God, first, then as an act of obedience. They wanted to totally by-pass God with an act of contrition. The bodily manifestation for us today was Christ's death on the cross. Have we totally missed the "big picture"? How sad!

MAY WE GET ABOUT THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST, namely, the Great Commission!

DO YOU FOLLOW?

______________________________

(Please continue to read the comments from "Trent".

…Woe to us when we praise His name in good times or at church and then curse it in pain, work or school. "…And anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:38 "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." Mark 16:15. Follow Him in His footstep if you believe. I know that wwjd has been done to death in terms of marketing but in terms of what we should do, it will remain a solid question forevermore. You and I will both fail from time to time but so to did His chosen disciples fall short at times. But no matter what, He is always there to pull us back up when we lose faith. Sometimes I think to myself that I would have been so much stronger then the disciples but I then realize that every day of my life I drive the nails of sin into his hands. This is a point but not today's point. We mustn't say we would stand up for Christ; we must stand up for Christ. To live is death while you're awake if you do not know the way. Jesus is the way, so follow Him. But beware that you do not become as what is spoken of in Matthew 7:15-23 which reads:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruits you will recognize them. 21 Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father Who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and drive out demons and perform many miracles?" 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I was so afraid when I first read that, I prayed a prayer like Psalms 139: 23-24, to ask Him to test me now and not latter. Please feel free to do so as well. "Search me, O God, and know my heart: test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way of everlasting." Amen!

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