Click Here to go to Home Page

To Our Cyber-visitors:
In our February WRAPs of this year, Mohammed Islami wrote us trying to use the Bible to disprove the divinity of Christ Jesus, apparently in an effort to justified his believing Mohammed to be greater than Christ.  This WRAP is more of the same.  To understand where we are coming from when we answer Mr. Islami, you might want to hit the "MORE WRAP AROUNDS" button at the bottom of the page and first read his WRAP and our comments in the FEBRUARY-2005 WRAP AROUNDS.   

Apparently, Mr. Islami wants me to answer his questions which are intermingled in his WRAP; so I will insert my answers as well as a few comments into his WRAP.  I will highlight my words in yellow. 
Mohammad Islami Wrote:

* Begotten = made, created, (caused to improve, ...)

Isaiah - Chapter 49
21: Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?
I'm not sure why you are referring to the begotten in this verse.  It is taken from one of the richest prophetic passages in the Bible.  The chapter begins referring to the Prophet Isaiah; and as many prophetic passages do, the passage jumps to Christ as the writer becomes a type of Christ--then it speaks of the nation Israel.  (It even goes on to speak of the Gentile Church.)  Verse 21 is taken from the references to end-time Israel.
1 Corinthians - Chapter 4
15: For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
The "begotten" here has to do with the spiritual "new birth" that Jesus mentioned to Nicodemus when He told him that he had to be "born again" before he could become a part of the Kingdom of God.  Paul is simply saying that it was he who delivered the "incorruptible" seed--i.e., the Gospel of the virgin birth, death, burial, and resurrection of the Only Begotten Son of God--which, through the faith of the believers in Corinth, brought them into the Kingdom of God.
1 Peter - Chapter 1
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Again, by using "begotten," a New Testament writer is referring to the spiritual "new birth" offer to all who live during the Grace Age.
---------------------
* Bear = beget (born = begotten = made (caused to birth, ...)

Genesis - Chapter 5
4: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Philemon - Chapter 1
10: I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:

Hebrews - Chapter 11
17: By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

-----------------
Matthew - Chapter 11
11: Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
-----------------
1 John - Chapter 5
1: Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
4: For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John - Chapter 5
18: We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
These are some of the most precious Words in the Bible to the born-again believer.  It is my prayer that they become precious to you.
============ Christ (Word) has begotten (firstbegotten)

Hebrews - Chapter 1
5: For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6: And again, when he bringeth in the *firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7: And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Christ Jesus is the firstbegotten, having been born of a virgin who was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.  After Christ, every believer in the Church that Christ has been building is also born of the Holy Spirit when he or she is impregnated by the Word of God and receives Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior.
********************************
*** [Revelation 3:14]
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, <the faithful> and <true witness>, <<<the beginning of the creation of God>>>;
*** [Revelation 19]
11: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called <Faithful> and <True>, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called <<<The Word of God>>>.
*********************************

Revelation - Chapter 1
17: And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

* Christ is "the first and the last" of creation = "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5)
(It does not refer to death of Christ on earth; Moses had resurrected before Christ!)
"first begotten of the dead" = "the beginning of the creation of God"
* God never dies!
Remember, Christ is not only the first "child of God" to be resurrected, but He is also the "first" and the "last" in that by Him God the Father created all that is made...and it will be Christ Jesus who destroys the present heaven and earth and speaks  new ones into being.
---------------------------
Hebrews - Chapter 5
5: So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Psalms - Chapter 2
6: Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7: I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8: Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9: Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

*** Christ has begotten as "Son" (Word)! He was not from eternity!
I'm sorry, but the Scriptures that you have quoted have proven just the opposite.
===============================================================

(*) - "Word was God" or "Word was from (of) God" ?

John - Chapter 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(You quote some of this later on, but it should probably be read here:
2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John - Chapter 8
42: Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

1 John - Chapter 4
3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4: Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5: They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6: We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
http://www.geocities.com/m80islami/quran/blood.htm

John - Chapter 13
3: Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

======== "Father" & "Lord"

*** The equivalent of "Father" in Bible is "Rabb" in Quran-mostly translated to "Lord", but it is wrong); "Rabb" only refers to God (Allah).

- "Creator" = "Khaleqh" in Arabic
- "Lord" = "Vali" in Arabic; God is LORD, Christ is Lord and there are other Lords, too. (Christ is the Lord of these Lords)

* Do you know who are these other Lords ? And what does it mean ?
That God wants His creation to know that there is a Godhead which consists of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit--each having His own unique part in the creation and salvation of men and women-- is indisputable; and that no man or woman can fully comprehend the concept of the Godhead is equally true. 

=================

John - Chapter 16
27: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28: I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
29: His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30: Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

2 Peter - Chapter 1
17: For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

--------------------------------------------
John - Chapter 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God. 3:
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

2 Peter - Chapter 3
5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
---------------------------------------------

John - Chapter 1
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Revelation - Chapter 21
2: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her
husband.

Is Christ "God" ? But, "God" is greater

Remember, to be able to die for our sins, Christ had to take upon Himself a body.  When in this body, He was both God and man; and as such He was no longer "equal" to God.  However, consider these words from the Gospel of John.

John 17:
1
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,
Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
 

DON WROTE:

Hello Mr. Islami,

It would seem that you are trying to use logic to reason out the truth concerning God and His will for man.  To my way of thinking, this should be the number one reason for the gift of intelligence--seeking for the TRUTH that we might please our Creator! 

That God gave us the power of reasoning so that we might please Him is Scriptural.

Isaiah 1:
18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

We should notice that God does not want to reason with us about our religious background, or our good works (which the Bible says are as filthy rags in His sight [Isa. 54:6]), or any other religious issue, but about our sins!--and the Bible has much to say about our sins.

Genesis 6:
5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Romans 3:
21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We should also notice that the LORD didn't say that we could make our lives to be white as snow by some religious ritual or by turning over a new leaf and becoming perfect--He said that though our sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.  How can our sins become as white as snow???  Surely our sin is as scarlet; and there is nothing that we can do that will make them any different.  Isaiah does not leave us in the dark on this matter.

Isaiah 53:
1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2
For he
[Jesus] shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Of course, this passage is speaking of the Lord Jesus and what He was to one day do on the Cross of Calvary for the man that He had created. There are several passage in the New Testament that expound upon this passage.  Consider the following.

Galatians 3:
8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I Peter 2:
24
Who his own self
[i.e. Jesus] bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Revelations 1:
5b
...[speaking of Jesus Christ] who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

So, we see that by the shed blood of Christ Jesus, God has made a way for our sins to be washed away as though they had never been. 

Let me give you one more verse concerning Jesus that not only deals with the doing away of our sin, but will also shed some light on the mortality of our immortal Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ!

Hebrews 2:
9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man...
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus had this to say about Himself in His mortal body.

Matthew 19:
16
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him,
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:

To understand what He was saying, we need to consider Paul's comments to the Corinthians:

I Corinthians 15:
45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47
The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
 

If you will read these verses in their context, you will see that Paul refers to Jesus as the second man Adam.  He does this because Jesus was the second and only other man to be Created directly by God.  (He created Adam from the dust of the earth; He created Jesus by immaculate conception.  [Remember, the Holy Spirit overshadowed the virgin Mary and impregnated her womb.])  Consequently, Jesus/the Second Man Adam, lived under the dispensation of innocence as did the first Adam--His test coming to Him while He was yet without sin.  While Jesus was in this state, He would not be perfect until He passed the test assigned to Him.  Of course, we all know that the first man Adam failed his test and brought sin and its curse upon the world.  However, the whole reason for the Bible is to let us know that the second man Adam (Jesus) did pass His test; and because He did, eternal life is now available to whosoever will repent of their sin and meet Christ at the foot of the cross. 

Hebrews 2:
10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect* through sufferings.

Hebrews 5:
8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect*, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(*i.e., complete)

The Bible says that Jesus was born of a virgin, He died on the cross and was resurrected, and left a blueprint for us to follow.  John 3:16 was the first part part of his blueprint, Matthew 22:37-39 the second and Matthew 28:19-20 the third.

John 3:
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38
This is the first and great commandment.
39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour* as thyself.

Matthew 28:
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

You do not have to deal with me and my words for they would have the same power as the words of any other man.  You must deal with the Word of God.  May It guide you in all of your spiritual thoughts and deeds.
 

*P.S.
You might like to research the Scriptures and see just who Jesus considers to be our neighbor.

YOU WROTE:

Question-Comment:

B'ANN WROTE:

Hello

You Wrote:

Question-Comment:

Don Wrote:

Hello

You Wrote:

Question-Comment:

B'ANN Wrote:

Hello

Click Here to go to Home Page

send your Emails to

MORE WRAP AROUNDS