Susan E Wrote:

so Don, when do YOU think the rapture will happen?

Don & B'Ann Wrote:

I Think the Rapture will take place when God is ready for His Son to come get His Bride the Church. However, having experienced the grace of God so often in my own life, I suspect that that might be when God looks down and realizes that there is no one left who can be touched by the fact that God sent His Son to die the awesome death of the cross for their sins--But, that's just my guess-not a revelation. We wrote DOWEKNOW as a wake-up call. DOWEKNOW we are the last generation of this age? NO! But DOWEKNOW that we are not that last generation and would we act any differently in the church world if we knew that we were?

Susan E Wrote Again:

Well Don, very interesting...

I believe you are most certainly correct. The rapture will happen I believe when God DOES look down, and see...the last one has come in. Then, he will come for us. I have been involved with Christians in the Media for quite a few years, my own series, etc. and I think the thing that always bothered me the most, was the manipulation of the leaders.

I stand in fear of God, and though I myself even went through burnout of overextending myself, laying down all my time until I began taking sleeping pills, seeing the little precious people, and the leaders that are nothing more than polished car salespeople, disgracing our Lord. Truly, if you believed the rapture was going to happen tomorrow, or even next week, would you charge 5.95 for a cassette on it? No… Jesus wouldn't. I am not meaning we are to be wasteful with what God gives us, but certainly, there must be a line drawn concerning sensationalism in the church.

I have seen the future, in dreams, open visions, and I don't care to flaunt it on TV...this is not what the gospel is about. The true gospel, is about, living daily for Christ, and giving all of your life to him, not caring…or worrying about WHEN the rapture will happen, but, in love, sharing with those the Holy Spirit tells us to, for no salvation brought to Christ with a foundation of fear of the rapture will stand when troubled times come. Please....share the love of Christ with them, for that is the only thing that will truly reach a solid rock within the very core of the soul, and spirit.

I do pray for you, for 'to whom much is given, much IS required'....I am not so strong, I feel very weak, I love the Lord with all of my heart, but if God wants me back, in the religious field, He knows my number. Until then, I will be a light, where I am now, in the secular field of entertainment.

God bless....

your sister in Christ.....

B'Ann Wrote Again:

We see in several places in the Bible how people reacted when they had a close encounter with the Lord.

"And I Daniel fainted, and was sick [certain] days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood [it]." (Dan 8:27)

When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when he cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops (Hab. 3:16).

We are told that Moses was not allowed to look upon the face of God, only His back parts (and there is a mystery here). This is a reminder about how powerful the presence of God is. We cannot carry such a power in our own might. Another thing I have observed is that when people pray with their eyes closed, they have a tendency to tighten their face muscles and grit their teeth. If you stay in this type prayer for any length of time, the muscles all over the body will tighten. This would be almost equal to screaming for a long length of time. We are told in the scriptures to pray without ceasing but this should be a meditative type situation. I have learned to get in a very comfortable position for prayer because if any part of the body in is distress, it will get more attention than the prayer. Try praying on your knees for an extended length of time. OUCH! Jesus says His yoke is easy and His burden light. In many churches, we are NOT ALLOWED to carry a light burden. I've been there! I have always worked for my livelihood, which involved an eight-hour, away from home occupation. In my free time, I… was playing the piano for three weekly services, was on call for weddings and funerals, was a Sunday School teacher, attended ladies' prayer meetings, worked yard sales and fund raisers, felt keenly involved in any neighborhood grief or disaster, ordered flowers for the sick, made hospital visits, cried over poverty children in the area, called on new mothers, visited the dying elderly, watched a neighborhood store flourish on illegal booze, carried the burden of two grandparents next door that had Alzheimer's disease, had no close lady friends because I was the religious "icon" of the neighborhood, buried two dogs that I loved, and on and on and on… During the time that I was giving out of myself, there was very little affection being returned. I was emptying myself out to an extended church family and I was not balanced with a personal family. I felt constantly empty as indeed I was. When I married Don, this began to come into balance. He was not a perfect spouse (no one is) but the part of me that had been so emptied began to fill because he had the same love of the Lord that I did. I began to realize that I did not have to constantly "press in" to the work of a Christian but rather I could be more effective if I prayed to be led to someone that needed me each day. When you are under the direction of a ministry, often you are required to perform rather that minister. I have a nephew that needed to learn this lesson. I told him that serving Jesus was not standing up before a group of people, waving the hand, performing songs, sermons…for a few hours a week. It is how we live each day among those we are closest to, those we have the personal watch care over, that is the bottom line. Everyone that is a Christian needs a Sabbatical. However, we are made to feel guilty if we miss a service, go to the beach over the weekend, etc. My church taught me that if I had relatives that came from another state for a visit, I had to walk out and leave them and come to church. Where was the warmth that they might need if they are lost? I recall a cousin and his little wife that came one Sunday afternoon to "visit". We all went to church and left them sitting in the living room. When we returned from church, they were gone. Years later, at my grandmother's funeral, his mother was extremely bitter. He had been promised a job in our vicinity and this had not materialized. He needed to borrow gas and food money to return to Arizona. She said they nearly starved before they could get back home. Oh yes, we went to church and sung our songs, I played that piano, the preacher preached, but that family certainly did not see any Christian attributes from us. There was no way I could ever witness to them again. We were TOO BUSY!

Let me share that now that I am older, I am busier than ever. Yet, it is different. I am busy doing the particular call that God has given me. In the age of Grace, we are no longer under the dictates of a hierarchy on earth, but rather we have a personal relationship with our High Priest, Christ Jesus. I attend church and fellowship with the saints but no bondage or guilt comes if I'm not doing everything. He will set you free and you are free indeed.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

B'Ann Love

Susan E Wrote The Third Time:

Dear B'Ann,

I am so glad for you, you found peace. I have chosen now, not to allow anyone to destructively manipulate me any longer. You cannot please everyone, it will eat you alive eventually, and no woman is superwoman, everyone in the home needs to help, although that is easier said than done.

I have learned is to watch out for classic warning signs such as:

* I have a hard time trusting people.

* I "space out" a lot.

* I often feel that I'm detached, that I'm just watching myself going through the motions.

* I always need to feel in control.

* I only feel okay when my house is clean and everything is in order.

* I don't like getting too close to people or letting them know how I feel.

* I need to do something intense (physically or sexually) to feel anything at all.

These statements are all from women who have gone through childhood trauma. Trauma can take on many forms. It can, in the worst cases, be physical or sexual. Or it can take subtle forms, such as emotional abuse, or a lack of love.

Basically, the pain may have gotten to the point where you couldn't stand it. When that happened, the mind did an amazing thing. It actually pushed the trauma out of your awareness so that you could get on with your life. The only problem with that is that by repressing painful feelings and memories, it makes you numb. True, you don't feel pain, but you can't feel love, or many other emotions, either.

Since I went through ministry burnout, etc, I am getting an education on the subject...and desire to help educate as many women as I can.

There is nothing worse than going through a crisis, and not even knowing you're going through one...to the point where you lose your hair, you wake up with your teeth clinching together, and you cry at the drop of the hat, etc etc etc.

True all the knowledge is but filthy rags before the Father, but, the Father, gave knowledge to doctors, and scientists to help us, besides prayer and faith in His supernatural healing.

When people can honestly look at themselves, and desire a healthy relationship, with everyone they come in contact with, and allow God to enlighten them, then, they will be a true blessing...and truly help everyone around them....

Tough love is not an easy thing, but, sometimes...it is the only way to save not only yourself....but, the loved ones around you as well.

And I am a woman of few words usually, ha ha, but, hey, God gave us a voice....

and so if this helps anyone out there, it is worth the time I took to sit here and type this to you..in love..

God bless you both, in Jesus love...forever...

your sis,,
Susan E

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Don

DAVID WROTE:

Thank you, David

DON WROTE:

Hey David:

You Pick the hard ones, don't you?

Who do I think are the two witnesses of Revelation 11:2-3? Well, the number "2" and the word "witnesses" do bring some ideas to mind. But first, let's look at speculations that are already in the church.

There has been conjecture that the two witnesses will be the two men in the Scriptures who were "taken up to be with the Lord" in miraculous ways: i.e., Enoch [Gen. 5:18-24] and Elijah [2 Kings 2:11]. These speculations are built upon the fact that God honored the faith of these two men by taking them up to be with Him without their having to go by the way of the grave. The reasoning behind the speculations is based upon the Scripture: "…it is appointed unto men once to die..." (Heb. 9:27). Because of their miraculous departures, it is assumed that these two men have yet to die. Therefore it is speculated that to fulfill the Scriptures, they must be the two witnesses of Rev. 11:2-12 who will be killed while all the world looks on. (Also, because of the wording of John 21:20-24, many speculate that the Apostle John might be one of the two witnesses of Revelation 11:2-3.)

I have a problem with all of this; for it seems to me that such conjecture does not consider "death" in the light of the Scriptures. In the Bible, death is not presented as just being killed or dying of some ailment, but the departure of the soul and spirit from the body (the Scriptures are too numerous to quote). To me, a more realistic approach to the two witnesses of Revelation 11 is that they are the two witnesses (the two "churches") that God has called to bear witness of Him to the world. I'm talking about the Hebrews (the seed of Abraham in the natural through the seed of Isaac the promised one) and the Church (the seed of Abraham in the Spirit through Christ who was the fulfilling of Isaac's type). For a thorough treatment of this subject, check out our book Clock of the Ages, which is included in its entirety on our web site.

As to your questions 2 & 3: Could you also explain what city and if the days are literal? The city is obviously Jerusalem, but because there is also a "spiritual" Jerusalem and a future Jerusalem yet to appear, the Jerusalem being referred to in the Scriptures is not always that obvious. In this particular passage it would seem that John is writing about the natural Jerusalem, although his wording could very well have meant the "spiritual city"—or both the natural and the spiritual. (Such dual meanings is prevalent in key prophetic passages and it is known as foreshadowing--see Clock of the Ages for more details.) As to the days, yes, I believe that they are literal and that they are the first ½ of Daniel's Seventieth week (Again, let me refer you to our book Clock of the Ages.) (Pray for us. If the Lord continues to deal with me as strongly as He has been, I'll be putting my notes on the Book of Revelation into book form to make available to our cyber friends.)

As to have the things spoken of in Revelation 11 taken place yet, the answer is "no." As to the when, no one knows but our Father in heaven. As to the time frame in which they will take place, once again let me refer you to our book the Clock of the Ages and our Study of the Book of Revelation. If you still have questions after reading the book and the study, don't hesitate to shoot them to me via our WRAP AROUND.

Let's think now on the four horsemen of prophecy. Briefly, the horseman of the Scriptures was a soldier on horse, and he was the ultimate war machine of the times. A foot soldier could do some damage, but nothing compared to a soldier on horseback. Consequently, the horseman is a natural to use when prophesying of things having to do with war. My comments on the horsemen would be too lengthy for a WRAP AROUND, but I will make reference to the first horseman. The first horseman riding the white horse, is symbolic of the beast, and as such it is an excellent type in that it depicts another way that Satan will try to imitate Christ. By trying to assume the appearance of the white (pure/holy) horseman of prophecy, he will be trying to imitate the returning Christ who will be coming in power to make righteous war against the forces of ungodliness on the planet earth and to rule the world with a rod of iron.

B'Ann Wrote:

As to your last question: "How can I tell my pastor that it is okay to share my tithe with more than one place?" In the Old Testament, under the law, there was only one storehouse for the tithe, with a Levitical priesthood being maintained as well as the Hebrew's theocratic government. For obvious reasons, this does not apply to the Grace-Age Church.

When the New Testament was ushered in, Paul would often admonish a flourishing church to send money to an area with a struggling fellowship. The new system of giving for the New Testament Church is explained by the Apostle Paul. Some key verses are:

(2 Cor. 9:7) "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

(I Cor. 16:1-2) "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."

This new type of giving brought about the mission-type establishment of New Testament churches. (For more about New Testament giving and preachers who put their congregation under the Old Testament rules, see the book MARK THEM included in our web site.) Obviously, your pastor feels that his church government should decide where your tithe goes. It would seem that you are looking around to see if there are other mission endeavors that you feel are worthy of your tithe. This is not unusual in this day of affluence. The church that we have kept close ties with does not have a fancy church base. Unlike churches whose membership attend for an esthetic, soulical experience, this church's emphasis is on missions. At present, the church has missions in many places in the world that it helps to support. Instead of building a beautiful bathroom, fellowship hall, etc, the money that comes into this ministry goes straight out to different Christian endeavors around the world. We have flowed with this group for some time, though now we feel we have to branch off into another direction. However, no one in this fellowship is angry with us, or feels betrayed by us. (How sad that a great majority of the new churches formed today are the result of a church fight over who has the final say.) The membership in this church that we have flowed with understands that everyone has a personal obligation to God. They all work and support their own ministry; so, any money given to the ministry can be sent out for God's work, not to support the preacher, build a bigger and better physical plant, etc. In conjunction with this, you need to read the WRAP AROUND we sent to the pastor Don J_____ in February, 1999. (See our FEB WRAP AROUNDS.) Have we accepted offerings? Yes, we have. In fact, any bona-fide ministry is always in need of funding as we certainly are at this time. But those who give to our ministry feel a strong leading of the Holy Spirit to do so. This is not to put down other bona-fide, serving ministries who ask for offerings. We each have our own walk.

God has given me an analogy about Mistletoe Christians/ministries that seems to apply at this time. Mistletoe is a seasonal thing, it brings joy to people that decorate their homes with it, it is part of a festive holiday season, it is pleasant to look at—yet, it is a parasite. It gets it sustenance from the host tree, it saps its energy and life from the tree, it doesn't kill the tree but it never becomes a part of the tree. It cannot be a branch of the tree. But the Bible never even suggests that the believer is like mistletoe. Instead, Jesus compared our relation to him with the union of the vine and its branches.

(John 15:5)
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

(We should note here that the unproductive believers are gathered {i.e., gathered of men [institutions, jails, etc.?]} and burned [tormented in their spirits?]--This is as opposed to those outside of Christ who are gather by angels for the lake of fire. This passage has nothing to do with the believer's salvation or his relationship to Christ as a born-again child of God.)

However, because the church body is made up of individual believers, then the same reality test that Jesus left us for the individual will apply to the church: i.e., "by their fruit you shall know them."

As we begin our inspection of the local churches, we need to keep in mind that the church was never commanded to build "bigger and better barns." In fact, the person in the Bible that did this was addressed in this manner: "But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?" (Luke 12:20). So, what is the fruit of a "live" church? A true church/ministry goes out into the highway and the hedges seeking the lost for its Master. And if the place where you are serving truly fulfills the call of Christ, then, your tithes belong there. But if for any reason you feel unsettled, then after much prayer, perhaps you need to go to a ministry that is doing the "go ye into all the world."

For the church that has no fruit, the diminishing membership and loss of credibility in the community becomes its stigma. In effect, it become like a Christmas tree. The behavior of its members has cut it off from the source of life, but in an attempt to look alive, they add all sorts of ornaments (hiring talented people and sprucing up the property, etc.). Nevertheless, in time their pretense will grow old and they will wither and dry up as we have seen in self-serving church/ministries in the past few years. On the other hand, we are not to worship in shacks for this would not be a good witness to the world; however, it doesn't matter whether our rears sit on a plastic toilet seat or a marble one. We just have to decide how much we want to pamper the flesh. As a church, if we pamper our flesh, we usually end up in some sort of a church fight over whose flesh should be pampered the most. And we will probably find ourselves chastised by men which usually takes the form of withdrawal of funding or a drastic reduction in the congregation attendance. Keep in mind, however, that like people, churches that go under chastisement can repent and start doing the work they were called to do.

If these comments do not answer your questions, please WRAP again, and let us know.

Don & B'Ann Love

??THE IMPENDING Y2K CRISIS!??

We are being told that we are too nonchalant about the Y2K approach. Most people we talk too feel that preparation should be made for about a 2-month time span. So, we will share these thoughts--not necessarily a doomsday cry.

Okay…Our country was founded by people that knew how to prepare for difficult times. In the 1940-50's, it was not uncommon to store food at the end of harvest season because there would not be another crop harvested until the next July-August. Many people that have farms still do this; so, we see nothing wrong with storing up a 2-month supply of non-perishable food, bottled water, and other necessities. In fact, my neighbors that are home owners are getting old fashioned pitcher pumps (hand pumps) to put on their wells in case of power failure and many are purchasing generators that can be used to pump water in an emergency. If you feel the need and want to do this, then it certainly won't hurt you. When the Y2K thing passes, the food you bought can always be given for Thanksgiving or Christmas baskets if it is not needed. HOWEVER, start buying some every week. Do not go out and panic buy, but rather slowly buy and plan for the next few months.

You should eat some of the items before buying to be sure they are something that you would want to eat day after day to avoid the yuk, yuk, yuk.

Those of you who are familiar with our site know that we have no patience with those who cry: "The world is coming to an end—send us your money!"

Nevertheless, we feel compelled to address the "crisis" that many feel the year 2,000 will bring.

Most everyone is familiar with FDR's "we have nothing to fear but fear itself," which was spoken to encourage the American public—and much of the world—during the fearful times of the II World War. Undoubtedly, President Roosevelt was inspired of the Lord to thus encourage the great "one nation under God." But even more applicable to the human race are some quotes from the Son of God Himself. True, there shall come a time, and probably sooner than later, when "… there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken." (Luke 21:25-26). (And by the way, as we can see from the next verse, this time will come just before the Church is taken up to be with the Lord. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [Luke 21:27 cf. Mt. 24:29-31][ For more particulars on the horrible time to befall the world just prior to the Rapture, go to our home page and click on the book button, CLOCK OF THE AGES.]) Nevertheless, to His Church Jesus said: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John 14:27). So, for the Church the bottom line is—no matter what comes along, "…if God be for us, who can be against us" (Romans 8:31)?

But as to the year 2,000 and what it may bring, let's reason together. The possible scenarios range from the ridiculous to the possible—but there are too many good things to think upon, so let's not waste our time on the ridiculous. As to the possible, it seems that our absolute reliance upon the computer—with no manual back up—could put us in a bind of some sort. We are told in the media by some people who are in credible political/economical positions that we should be prepared in case some of our industries, our power plants, our transportation, our banks, etc. become inoperative due to computer failure. This may be true, I personally have no way of knowing—but to me it would seem that the real problem, if we do end up having a problem, will not be with the computers as much as with us humans pushing the panic button. (Oh, that we might learn a lesson from the stock-market crash of the thirties so that we won't once again be guilty of self-fulfilling prophecy. And in the light of such possible panic, don't we know that the Church needs to be a stabilizing force. After all, doesn't the Bible say that we have not the spirit of fear, but the Spirit of a sound mind?)

Let's be real. If some of the computers do go down, hey, they can be put back up. True, in the meantime some of us may experience some discomfort, but what ever happened to the old Boy Scout slogan, "be prepared"? As B'Ann said, there's nothing wrong with some preparation. In fact, there may be a lot right about some preparation—as long as it is done "decently and in order." To me, the worst case scenario would be for everyone in the USA to wait until a couple of weeks before Jan. 1, 2000 and then decide that they have to stock up. Obviously, the stores would soon be bare and the confusion that would follow could be devastating.

So what can we do to be a stabilizing force? We can do whatever we choose to do NOW so that we won't contribute to any panic movement. We can also pray for those with the rule over us that if such confusion were to come, that they will be on their toes so that no enemy of our great nation might try to take advantage of our silliness.

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