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| TO OUR CYBER-VISITORS: Trent's WRAP AROUND is filled with thoughts, so I'll break from our usual format and insert my responses in the middle of his comments. My thoughts will be highlighted in yellow. Trent Wrote:
The Passion I have seen different passion films and plays, I even helped set up a youth group skit of it once. I invited quite a few people to them and they all accepted Jesus and they were just plain on fire thereafter. Then, in about three months when I saw them again, they were further from the Father than before. I have also invited people to Bible studies and Sabbath classes and ten, twenty, and I’ll assume 100 years latter, they are still on fire. One had a play that can’t measure up and one had the Word. There is a new movie out. And there is an old Book as well. Perhaps it would have made a difference if you had set up Bible studies for those who accepted Jesus after seeing your skit about Christ’s sufferings on the Cross—then, perhaps they would not only have known the joy the "seed" produces in the heart, but the stability that comes with Bible. But then, I notice that you have "Sabbath classes" instead of meetings on Sundays which makes me to wonder if you teach the sincere milk of the Word or if you’re caught up in some fragmented doctrine that you feel you have to defend. Also, it is true that there is an "old Book," as you call it, but rarely does an unbeliever pick up the Bible and find Jesus. The Bible teaches that the unbeliever is to see Jesus in the Believers as they walk in obedience to Christ. In other words, the believers are to be the "book" that the unbelievers’ read. Sadly, as the great falling away in the churches show, the messages that are being read in the church members are not one that draws people to Christ, but messages that drive them away. Perhaps, if people were able to see Christ in those who claim to be His, then there would be no need for a movie like the one that everyone is talking about. (Written in peace and love and concern). It seems like everyone I've spoken with as of late has seen the Passion (a movie by Mel Gibson about the death of the Messiah, Yehoshuah). They ask if I have seen it and without fail are stunned when I politely say, "No I haven't, and will not." Now I could give reasons that have been brought to my attention by interviews with Mel Gibson, such as the heavy Catholicism with an emphasis on icons and imagery, or it being spoken in a language that no Jew of that time period would have ever listened to, and which many of the Hebrew people would not have even understood (is not almost all literature from that area and time in Hebrew?), but it usually would not help matters if they are in love with the film. You see, that’s the problem. About 95% of the people who have spoken with me about the movie, "Passion," have all said the same thing. They tell me with passion, "I will never view the Messiah again the same way." I truly do weep in this. Men and women leave the theater in tears and claim their lives have changed. I have heard more people speaking about the Good News as of late than in all time before. Shouldn’t this cause joy? So why does it make me sad? Because many of the same people never caused such a commotion about the Good News nor wept as many tears by reading His Word. Is creation itself not amazing enough to strike up a conversation with a complete stranger! In many people's lives the Passion has out performed The Very Word Of The Father! I don't desire to see the film and I really hope you don't either. But whether you have or not I ask this of you. Go to His Word and read. If you are not moved to tears then pray and fast. If sadly you can no longer read His Word without seeing the film in your mind then pray and fast. Allow the true Father to introduce His Salvation. Let the man who calls himself father also humble himself and ask the One and only Father to introduce His Salvation. Let us not weep, nor speak of, nor love a film ... more than His Word. Read Torah and see the True Passion! B'Ann Wrote: The reason they probably never "caused such a commotion about the Good News nor wept as many tears by reading His Word" could be because they have been carefully shielded from it. Or perhaps there are so many factions teaching this and that about Christ, that the people are totally bewildered about what the "message" really is. The bottom line of the the church should be and must be the "death of Jesus on the Cross" as explained in John 3:16. That is the pivot point; then, to this we are to add the Great Commission. So simple, so basic, so unconfusing. Again, I sense that you’re very concerned that everyone believes just as you. I don’t know what church you belong to (one doesn’t even have to belong to a denomination to get caught up in the dissention that denominationalism festers), or if you feel yourself to be non-denominational; but I can see that you are very intolerant of the Catholic Church. I, too, can find Scriptural problems with the Catholic Church as I can with every Church denomination (The Catholic Church has been around centuries longer than their competitors, so it’s has had more time to take on the problems of its leaders.); but it is not faith in a church or a belief that saves a soul. It is faith in the passion and death of Christ Jesus that took place on the Cross of Calvary. I, personally, am more than satisfied that there are people in every major Christian organization that have exercised faith in that "passion" and who belong to Christ Jesus because of their faith. As to comments about what language was spoken at the time, I see no point. And as to your insinuation that the movie has outperformed the Bible—I’ll not comment other than to say that it appears that you have swallowed the bitter pill of envy and are not willing to admit that God might use Mel Gibson more than He does your brand of Bible teaching. It looks like it might be time for some introspection. (Also, and of much alarm, many Jews are concerned about this film and they have every right to be. There have been hundreds of years of bitter anti-Semitism stimulated by the passion plays of the middle ages. While it is hard to imagine that Christians today would murder Jews following the movie, the memory is still there being reinforced by signs I have seen on churches saying, "The Jews killed Jesus" [When in reality even the Romans didn’t … our sin did]… Apparently, you didn’t hear the interview where Mel Gibson said something very similar to what you just said: i.e., that "sin" crucified the Lord of Glory and not any man or group of men. …In Germany there were many of these plays regularly enacted, with the most famous, in Oberammergau, watched by Adolf Hitler who had seen the 1934 presentation. Adolf Hitler praised it as a precious tool in the fight against Jews and Judaism. It played a large part in his anti-Semitic views. Nazism was sprouted in the soil of a nation that embraced its passion plays. I say this in concern, not hatred. I say this in love, not a desire for hate or argument. I don’t know your source for this bit of information, but I do know that in the Bible, Jesus did say of the leaders of Israel: Ye are of your father the devil. (See Jn. 8:36-44.) Does this make God responsible for all the persecution that the Jews’ behavior has brought upon themselves? Do we then ban the Bible? I THINK NOT—although I know that would make many happy today.) . Also, Gibson's presentation of Pontius Pilate as a fair-minded man is blatantly far from the facts of history. Pilate sentenced thousands of Jews to death by crucifixion and on some occasions actually killed a thousand in a day by nailing them to the walls in Jerusalem; what’s one more Jew to a ‘saint’ like him? Pilate was nothing like the man portrayed in the movie; an alleged pawn of the Jewish leaders. It was the other way around... As I read the Scriptures, Pilate had no choice but to say what he did when he made the public show of washing his hands of the death of Christ. He could not order our Lord’s death; because Jesus said that no man took His life, but that He gave it willingly. In fact, the crucifixion did not kill Jesus.
If you still have doubts about Jesus having complete control over His crucifixion, consider these verses where Judas led the soldiers to capture Him. Jesus first knocked them to the ground; then, He let them up to arrest Him.
Let everyone fully understand that there was no part of his crucifixion that was not in His control until He cried, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mt. 27:46).
Isa. 50:6 Isa. 52:14 …Many (not all) of the Jewish leaders weren’t Jews but rather men, who bought, bribed, threatened, and murdered their way to the top position. More Jews wanted to see Yehoshuah live than most people think. In fact all the Good News we have of the Messiah is from Jews. They wrote many Gospels about Him. They loved Him. And many do, still to this day, as I.) Again, I don’t know the authority for such statements, so I won’t comment on them. I do know from the Bible that the founders and the earliest membership of the church were Jewish people and that most of the New Testament was written by Jews who had been born again. I also understand that there are many born-again Christians of Jewish descent today, and that some of them like to be called "completed" Jews. So in conclusion, all I really ask, is that you pray about the viewing of this film and to by all means spend some time in the Word and see His beautiful love for all, Jew and Gentile alike. A passion play for a couple hours or His Word for life? I pray you leave the answer to that question up to the Father. By now, you have probably figured out that I feel you should reconsider your stance against the movie. Let me give you a couple of things to consider. First, there’s a verse of Scripture that you need to think on. Php. 1: 15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: If I read this verse right, then I should rejoice that Mel Gibson made the movie. After all, if only one soul comes to Christ because of it, the movie is justified. As to some argument that it might drive people from Christ, I would suggest that maybe the churches should take a look at their own track record before they begin throwing stones. Second, consider a possibility that God has raised Mr. Gibson to give the churches and the citizens of the United States a voice by simply going to see this movie. When liberal politicians removed the right of educators and students to begin their day by reading from the Bible and saying the Lord’s Prayer, was the average citizen given a say? When liberal politicians, educators, and the liberal press decided that corruptive pornography should be equated with "art" and pornographers were given the freedom to attack the minds and mores of Americans, were we allowed to vote on the matter? When any reference to the Bible and its Christ were removed from public places and a spiritual atmosphere was created so that a teacher might lose his or her job by simply mentioning the name of Jesus, were the average citizens given any way to express their feelings? When the purporters of the grossest kinds of pornography, hatred, and violence "created the illusion" that their form of sickness could not and should not be censored from the Internet, were we allowed to express our opinions? (If man is smart enough to build the Internet, he’s capable of controlling what goes across it!) Of course the answer to these and many similar questions is a resounding "NO!" So, could it be that with the movie "The Passion," God is giving Americans a way to let our leaders and the world know that we DO want the One True Living God and His Only Begotten Son Jesus to be a part of our society and of the fabric of our lives? (Also, for those who are critical that Mr. Gibson made money from the movie [usually preachers], I say, more power to him. How he spends that money is his business; but the thought comes to me that it sure would be nice if he were to use some of it to set up a cable television network for the family that would edit offensive material out of the movies. [Perhaps, he might want to begin by editing some of his own earlier movies.] I like sex as well as the next person, but I’ll leave it in my bedroom where it belongs. Also, I don’t like cursing or violence and especially not in movies. I personally see no entertainment value in either of them. To me, their use in movies is intended to corrupt and degenerate our society. I know that I would personally support such a cable system; and not only for my family’s sake, but for the sake of our country. Historians teach that Rome fell, not because of a strong enemy from without, but because of corruption on the inside. Doesn’t history also teach that those who ignore her lessons are doomed to repeat her failures?) I know that by His passion on the Cross, Jesus made us to be free moral agents; but I also know that with liberty comes responsibility. I am free to punch my neighbor in the nose, but I cannot exercise that freedom without consequences. (My neighbor is much bigger than I!) It’s easy to see the consequences of such an overt act, but all that it will take for us to loose the true liberties that has been ours in America is for the average citizen to DO NOTHING! Think on this. It’s not too late to cast your vote! B'Ann Wrote: Let me give you something for thought. If those who call themselves Christians were supposed to utilize the technology of the movie industry to make a movie similar to "The Passion"; it would have never been done. The church world would be too busy arguing about this or that and further hacking up the "Body of Christ"/the Church into a myriad of pieces. This is what they wanted to do to His body while He was on the cross. Only the fact that He was "lifted up" above the crowd by the cross prevented it. But we have completed the job. We have divided, then divided, then divided again the Body of Christ until the true miracle of today is that anyone hears enough truth to get "born again"! Don and I were reminiscing and I recalled that a lone, little woman, Anita Bryant, stood against the homosexual movement when it first began "coming out of the closet." To my knowledge, none of the church world rushed to her defense. Because of her stance, she was dropped by the entertainment industry. In the case of Mel Gibson, we have a lone man risking his money to make a movie about Christ. Will he be dropped by the entertainment community? Perhaps not, for people are voting in a major way by buying tickets to the movie. But what if the Christians were supposed to make the stand that both of these people did? Look at our precious, but sin-riddled world!!! I don't think the movie in question will send it spiraling faster and faster into sin. But our silly arguments over who is of this, who is of that, most certainly could for while we are arguing, the good news of John 3:16 is not being preached. (By the way, the church that I attended as a child taught that unbelief sent Christ to the cross and that alone. No race of people were singled out.) I have taught my own children to stop and do as they did at the Lord's Supper. Each one asked, "Is it I, Lord"? We might be surprised at the answer that He would give if we would allow Him to speak in this modern age.
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| Dan Wrote: Question-Comment: I disagree with your comments to Trent. I mean you come from a Proto-orthodox prospective, and Trent is coming more from an Ebonite postition. Maybe, you should read some history books about the first century believers. I highly recommend Bart Ehrman's "The New Testament". The more you study, I think that you'll find that early believers fit Trent theology more than yours.-Dan C____ Don Wrote: Hello Dan,
By saying this, I am not trying to slur your intelligence; for it takes a sharp mind to be able to wade through and comprehend the verbiage of modern theologians. However, I do hope that you will consider these words of the Apostle Paul.
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| Del Wrote: DON THE SUNDAY AFTER WE HAD 35 ACCEPT CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOR SO I WOULD RATE THE MOVIE AS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!! DEL Don Wrote: EXCELLENT! Since your pastor was swift enough to do as you've said, then I'm sure that He has already made special plans to get them into the Word. We rejoice with you. I was talking with a brother a couple of days ago and he asked if I thought that this movie The Passion might be the start of a revival in America. My answer was, I don't know, but wouldn't that be great?!?! |
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine...(Proverbs 17:22) Our good friend and fellow musician Larrie Crosby sent these to us. We thought we'd share them with you Some people are kind, polite, and sweet-spirited-until you try to sit in their pews. Many folks want to serve God, but only as advisers. It is easier to preach ten sermons than it is to live one. When you get to your wit's end, you'll find God lives there. People are funny, they want the front of the bus, the middle of the road, and the back of the church. Opportunity may knock once, but temptation bangs on your front door forever. Quit griping about your church; if it was perfect, you couldn't belong. The phrase that is guaranteed to wake up an audience: "And in conclusion." To make a long story short, don't tell it. If your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing, you should consider running for a job in Washington, DC. Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set. A lot of church members who are singing "Standing on the Promises" are just sitting on the premises. We were called to be witnesses, not lawyers or judges. Outside of traffic, there is nothing that holds this country back as much as committees. Be ye fishers of men. You help catch them - He'll clean them. Coincidence is when God chooses to remain anonymous. Don't wait for 6 strong men to take you to church. Forbidden fruits create many jams. God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called. God grades on the cross, not the curve. God loves everyone, but probably prefers "fruits of the spirit" over "religious nuts!" God promises a safe landing, not a calm passage. He who angers you, controls you! If God is your Co-pilot - swap seats! Prayer: Don't give God instructions - just report for duty! The task ahead of us is never as great as the Power behind us. The Will of God will never take you to where the Grace of God will not be with you. We don't change the message, the message changes us. You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage him. The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given.
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